A Mature Man…

The conversations continue…Daniel and I were discussing my expectations of my husband when I was a young wife and mother.

Me: When I was newly married, pregnant a year later and when my daughters were growing up, I needed a partner, a helpmate. What I got was the puer aeternus. I do commend my ex-husband for supporting our family economically. There are some men who don’t do that. However, every structure of safety and a healthy environment in which to rear children was torn down by his drunken disregard for the sacred task of rearing our children. Not to mention his disrespect of me.

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Now, in my middle years, I no longer need that type of helpmate. My task of being the woman who can only love as mother is complete. Now I want a mature man who can meet me as an equal and love me wholly as a woman!

Daniel chuckled and asked wryly “Christine, would you know how to be towards a mature male?”

The question seemed to hover in the air between us. I wondered out loud.

Me: “I’d like to think that I’m capable of learning…that if a man were mature and self-aware, I’d like to think that I could up-level, to grow as a result of our relationship. In a healthy way. Rather than being brought down to a level of the immature male. I’ve been there and done that.”

Daniel, noting that it was only theoretical, applied the question to himself…would he know how to relate to a mature woman?

Aha!

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Longer life spans have created different needs and/or new desires for what a woman seeks in a relationship with a man. It’s after we get tossed from the old paradigms, when they prove false, unreliable, like the betrayals that they were that change can begin to occur. When I was twenty-seven years old, I literally vomited up the false beliefs about my childhood. I had thought I had a good childhood. I had relied on what my father had said “Your parents are you best friends.” When I began to see that my childhood was based on a terrible fiction, I became depressed. I went into the underworld. I had to go there to unearth what was false and discover what was true.

Such an upheaval can occur at any time in one’s life. Daniel grew up in Wales. His reaction to his dysfunctional childhood was to detach from his parents at a very young age, ten years old. He physically left home and school when he was sixteen years old. He had seen what marriage looked like and decided that it wasn’t for him. However, he did marry, twice. Due to his background and lack of self-awareness, both marriages failed.

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What I needed and desired in a man when I was young and planning a family had evolved. Once that sacred task of childrearing was completed, what was I looking for in a relationship with a mature male? What I desire now is different than what I needed then. I certainly don’t want to bring up an immature male at this time in my life.

Me: When a woman says “I want a mature man, are there any out there?” I wondered out loud to Daniel.

Daniel: Is that her intrinsic truth? Does she really want a mature man? Are there any out there? There are very few as you know…

Daniel noted that when a man marries young and has a family, by the time he’s in his forties, he’s looking around for a younger woman…He puts all of that aside and starts over again…doing the Peter Pan thing, trying to stay young because now he’s got “a young chick” by his side.

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In the past, Daniel was drawn to women that he considered to be “mature women.” He was also often intimidated by who he thought that they were–that they were smarter than him. When he came to Hollywood to work as a screenwriter, he was attracted to these focused career women. He considered them both as objects of desire and sources of learning. They represented wisdom and maturity to him. Although he was intimidated by them, he stuck it out for a period of time because he knew (even back then) that it was about consciousness-changing. When the women lost their allure to him, when he realized that “they weren’t as smart as I thought they were,” he abused them over a period of time.

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As a woman of many years now, if I choose to be in a relationship with a man again, I have to do my own work of becoming conscious, self-aware. A mature man, one who has done his deep work likely won’t appear on my radar screen unless or until I do what I need to do to grow in self-awareness. That’s as it should be.

One thing that was probably beneficial for Daniel and me as we held these weekly conversations is that we were both clear that we weren’t romantically interested in the other. If that had been the case, I think the conversations would have gone in a different direction and perhaps not have been possible.

The Teacher in Him

As I review the recordings of the conversations between Daniel and myself, I note that he felt compelled to be the teacher. That he came into our first session with sheets of photocopied paper to explain, according to his spiritual teacher, how a woman can only love as mother, demonstrated this. In every following session, I had a sense that he wanted to be the teacher. How well can a teacher shift into the role of being the student? How open then was Daniel to learning from me as a woman? Did this immediately set up a way of relating that wasn’t conducive to an open dialogue where both participants felt seen and heard?

Having stated the above, both of us must have felt safe in sharing. In the first session, we quickly moved from being hypothetical to discussing our childhoods and early relationships with the opposite sex. I found my ground and although he often seemed to dominate the conversation, I said what I wanted to say. And, our time together became very interactive and conversational.

My initial question, before Daniel stated his premise, was to discuss the Peter Pan Syndrome, the Puer Aeternus male and how the modern woman responds to him. When I look at our government, for instance, I can find so many examples of out-of-control egos governing the world. I have noticed that often, the women who are married to these men appear to support the immature male–often by their silence.

We did touch on this topic. Daniel admitted to not stepping into his adult male persona until he was in his sixties. Before that, he didn’t have a conscience about being verbally and psychologically abusive to women…and men. If he perceived that someone was intellectually inferior to him, he immediately judged them as less than him.

Both Daniel and I had highly abusive childhoods. We had male and female models that were stunted in their growth. Anger was the man’s go-to when he was triggered. Submission was the woman’s response to a man, especially when he exhibited anger. This was true in both of our families of origin. Daniel grew up not respecting his mother. He considered her cowardly for not standing up to his father. “A doormat,” he said.

I could match him for that as my father was highly abusive and got away with the unthinkable. My mother had no power in the relationship…it seemed to be this way right from the start of their marriage. We can say it was the times…the fifties’…when woman was to play that subservient role in relation to her husband. However, it’s been a theme throughout known history…that woman is secondary, less than. A theme that was exacerbated when man instigated religions that elevated men and virtually erased women from the pantheon of newly reigning gods.

Men could get away with all sorts of things within the constructs of family. It was structured within Christianity that a woman “be subject to him.” That is what I learned so well from my mother. I went off into the world, modeling my mother, subjugating myself to a man who didn’t see or appreciate me. A man who blamed me because all he wanted to do was be a boy. He did a man’s job, a firefighter, and then he wanted to play, play, play and drink, drink, drink. He would have occasional sentimental bouts where he’d try to do something thoughtful. These rare instances of sentiment couldn’t counteract his ongoing behaviors and violations, his disrespect towards me.

Daniel went off into the world at an early age, full of arrogance and rage and without a conscience, as he said. Although he felt shame around and anger towards his mother, he intuitively felt that women would be his teachers. He sought out women like himself–attractive, whip-smart intellectuals, able to hold that attraction or otherwise, dismissible. Whereas, I sought approval from a man. Was I pretty enough? Was I bright enough? Was I sexy enough to hold a man’s fidelity and his love? I always felt, that I had to try harder and do more to “win him.” I thought I had to earn his love and affection. It wasn’t alright to be me exactly as I was.

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What is a woman’s role in regards to the immature males in her life, grown men who refuse to grow up and take responsibility? That was one of my questions to Daniel…and now to you.

Woman, “her real identity”

Daniel and I met in my small living room from 2:00 to 3:00 p.m. on Thursdays for three months. I served tea and placed a recorder on the floor between us.

Daniel initiated the first conversation by asking me to state what I intended with these conversations. I said something to the effect that I hoped for a better understanding of how men and women relate. To notice the ways that we communicate with one another. To explore the similarities and the differences?

For our first conversation, Daniel came in with a prop. His spiritual teacher is a man named Vitvan (1883-1964). It appeared that he had the intention of instructing me in some of these spiritual teachings as pertains to the male/female relationship. And, who the woman is intrinsically, in her true nature. What he was about to share, he felt, was a vital premise, a basis for our discussion. Daniel had made photocopies of a few pages from Vitvan’s teachings. This particular teaching was about who a woman is from this spiritual perspective.

Daniel suggested that we could talk on a spiritual level or the human level of what happens between a man and a woman. In my mind, there isn’t a separation. The spiritual is human, the human is spiritual.

He read to me as I read along.

“On the higher mind level, where there is androgyny, there is no division between the genders. We are united. However, when we step down to the personal plane, there is a split in the androgyny. When the two try to unite on this plane, it is impossible.” However much we try, it’s never going to happen. “NEVER,” Daniel emphasizes. The reason is, according to Vitvan, a woman can only love as mother. The man’s ego might feel threatened if he were to realize this. The woman herself rarely has glimpses of this “fact“.

As Daniel finished reading the teachings, many of which were esoteric and beyond my understanding at the time, I pondered how that was relevant to my life. Where in my experience could I see the spiritual theory that a woman can only love as mother?”

I recalled when my first daughter was born. I felt the deepest love I’d ever experienced. It was not comparable to the love I had for my husband. It was impossible to describe to Daniel, although I tried.
Considering the three major relationships that I had with men, including my husband, their level of maturity dictated my behavior towards them. Two out of three men placed me in the mother role in relating to them. They were, as has been termed, “puer aeternus.” Also referred to as the Peter Pan Syndrome. “I won’t grow up, I’ll never grow up, not me!”

This brought up the question then,

“If women can only love as mother, are men unconsciously looking to a woman to mother them?”
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What do you think? What is your experience as a man or a woman in this regards?